tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441020117205433950.post6315075027189204106..comments2023-11-04T23:31:40.392-10:00Comments on got windmills?: STEPPING ON HIS TONGUEAndy Parxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15398587036690312685noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441020117205433950.post-29647120303432832722008-05-28T19:55:00.000-10:002008-05-28T19:55:00.000-10:00As I point out in the comments to the post above t...As I point out in the comments to the post above this one, apparently you lose by an AG decision. And anyway, a mission statement does not “prescribe policy, describe the organization [of an agency] or practice requirements of (the) agency”. A mission statement is not something that prescribes rules. If you are having a tiff with an agency, you don't get to site to its mission statement in your complaint. No. You would site to whatever rules it has violated. <BR/><BR/>Like, are you going to sue the police department because it failed to "acknowledge and accept our individual differences and unique cultural diversity, and promise to treat each other and everyone we serve with dignity and respect" in blatent violation of its mission statement?<BR/><BR/>Or sue the department because it failed to "strive to maintain public trust and confidence by upholding the highest moral and ethical standards" again in violation of the mission statement?<BR/><BR/>Or because they failed "to provide superior level of services, and to take responsibility for our actions and decisions"?<BR/><BR/>Do you see what a dopey premise you're pushing here? Read the mission statement. Nothing about it is described in the definition of rule. It doesn't act like a rule, it doesn't look like a rule. It clearly isn't a rule. <BR/><BR/>And making such a fuss because the police sent more cops than you'd like to a demonstration and a clean up seems kind of silly too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441020117205433950.post-29032162545360662972008-05-28T19:08:00.000-10:002008-05-28T19:08:00.000-10:00Hey- I got it- it was equivocation. And you still ...Hey- I got it- it was equivocation. And you still wish rules were defined other than they are in 91-1, eh?<BR/><BR/>You want organization to be self-referential and mean the organizing of the department. I bet you sure wish it said organizing in stead of organization...<BR/><BR/>If a mission statement doesn’t “prescribe policy, describe the organization or practice requirements of (the) agency”. what the heck does it do? I can’t imagine anyone who would read these words together and not consider a “mission statement” to come under the specific definition found in law. Except an amateur troll.<BR/><BR/>The issue is not just the action in disregard of the law (which despite your hysterical off-subject denial is by definition illegal if it violates 91-1). but the juvenile actions of leadership and their refusal to talk about or deal with- and apparent approval of actions in- numerous reported excessive and even abusive use of force incident that are still occurring. <BR/><BR/>I'm talkin about that. <BR/><BR/>Anyway it yurns out he lied anyway and it wasn't the mission statement. He should resign for that .Andy Parxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15398587036690312685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441020117205433950.post-66579191717948479902008-05-28T10:26:00.000-10:002008-05-28T10:26:00.000-10:00"Off subject"? You called for the chief's resigna..."Off subject"? You called for the chief's resignation based on your contention that he broke the law. How is a discussion of whether he broke the law (a subject YOU raised) "off subject"? <BR/><BR/>Back to the subject: First, you misinterpret the statute when you say "describes the organization." Describing the organization doesn't make a rule. Describing the organization OF THE agency, is a rule. A flow chart, in other words. Who in the organization has authority and to whom are decisions appealable. That sort of thing. A statement that the police dept. exists to protect the public and be respectful is not a rule. A statement that officers answer directly to captains and that decisions are appealable to a board is a rule. The mission statement therefore is not a rule under that particular clause.<BR/><BR/>Does it prescribe policy or describe practice requirements so as to constitute a "rule." Based on case law I would argue not. Case law, for instance, has distinguished between "guidelines" and "rules and regulations" - guidelines not following under the statutory requirements of rules. I believe if you were to press your point in court, mission statements would fall closer to the "guidelines" definition than to a definition of rules which the courts have described as commanding or prohibiting some specific act or describing specific procedures. <BR/><BR/>And anyway, there's an answer to the question that a journalist ought to be able to dig up. Are mission statements subject to the requirements of the Act? You tell me. Make some phone calls. Bet they're not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441020117205433950.post-60757463408286957662008-05-28T09:49:00.000-10:002008-05-28T09:49:00.000-10:00Charley- tell me how a mission statement isn’t per...Charley- tell me how a mission statement isn’t perfectly described in saying it “prescribes... policy (and, although only or is required) describes the organization or(and) practice requirements of (the) agency?” (92-1 “Rule”- definition)<BR/><BR/>I don’t understand how it could be clearer.<BR/><BR/>And here some red meat for our morning time-waster--That which is not done accordance with law is illegal... by definition. Thank sir- Can I have another peripherally off-subject prevaricative equivocations..Andy Parxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15398587036690312685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441020117205433950.post-41736581715886049112008-05-28T08:29:00.000-10:002008-05-28T08:29:00.000-10:00still, the point is, for an open and transparent c...still, the point is, for an open and transparent chief in charge of a somewhat suspect group of county workers, he should do better than that. he'd of been better off not to respond. likewise for the chair. <BR/>they don't deserve a pass on this. juan struck a nerve, a raw one. 'read juan, read'em all' speaks to the base nature of this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441020117205433950.post-52678404190277725682008-05-27T20:23:00.000-10:002008-05-27T20:23:00.000-10:00I accept that a mission statement isn't a purely i...I accept that a mission statement isn't a purely internal document. But that doesn't make it a rule. My question is which of the specific roles in the statutory definition of rule does the mission statement satisfy. I contend it does not fall under any of them and is therefore not a rule and is therefore not subject to the same process as is required for promulgating rules.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441020117205433950.post-70385411961681348712008-05-27T19:11:00.000-10:002008-05-27T19:11:00.000-10:00Mission Statements don’t only cover your internal ...Mission Statements don’t only cover your internal affairs. They cover your service to the public. Everything has an internal component. They’re not about your mission to yourself, especially if your job is serving and interacting with the public <BR/><BR/>A “mission statement” is part and parcel of the operation procedures for everything from garden clubs to county agencies. You will find them in the ad rules of most county and state departments- under “administrative rules”. Ask for them by name. I’ve read most of those for the county and have some paper copies lying around somewhere. I think they actually have a couple on line now.<BR/><BR/>Look for the mission statements in them They describe how the organization serves the public and does whatever it is they do to, er- for us. When they have one it’s what they “go back to” in every management review meeting (which government people seem to go back to every week) when someone yells “ why aren’t we following our mission statement”.Andy Parxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15398587036690312685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441020117205433950.post-73213780238648819542008-05-27T14:10:00.000-10:002008-05-27T14:10:00.000-10:00zzzzzzzzzzzzPoor Andy. Still making conclusions t...zzzzzzzzzzzz<BR/><BR/>Poor Andy. Still making conclusions then trying to make the facts fit them afterward. <BR/><BR/>So when a supervisor tells his troops "be nice to the public and treat them with respect (aloha and pono)" that doesn't fit into "internal management".<BR/><BR/>I think you'll lose that one. But hey, why derail another perfectly frothy rant over messy little things like facts that don't quite fit. Still looking for a way to deny bike path plans that predate 2002 by a decade or so?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441020117205433950.post-15785563881347378762008-05-27T10:37:00.000-10:002008-05-27T10:37:00.000-10:00I'm not so sure, Andy. A mission statement doesn't...I'm not so sure, Andy. A mission statement doesn't implement, interpret or prescribe any law or policy, nor does it describe the organization of an agency, or the procedures of an agency, or the practice requirements of an agency.<BR/><BR/>A mission statement is usually understood to be a statement of an organization's reason for existing. <BR/><BR/>If you look at the cases included in the annotations under the statute you linked containing the definition of rule you see that "rule" is generally interpreted by the courts as something actually having specific legal effect and impact on people's rights. <BR/><BR/>Maybe mission statements do fall under the definition of rule. I don't personally know. But I didn't locate any cases that said as much. Do you have any actual knowledge that mission statements require the same procedures as rule making? If so it would be interesting to see. Otherwise, your claim that "mission statement" falls under the definition of "rule" seems more contrived than anonymous's claim that it doesn't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441020117205433950.post-21239230622278863972008-05-27T09:26:00.000-10:002008-05-27T09:26:00.000-10:00You’re always good for a morning laugh my dear Tro...You’re always good for a morning laugh my dear Trollie- only you could find a way to spin the mission statement describing and directing how department personnel interact with the public into a strictly internal document. Perhaps you should go to work for the law firm Spin, Prevaricate and Timewaster. Either that or try reading some actual departmental ad rules which usually being with their mission statement.<BR/><BR/>As an update this morning some are claiming that what the Chief called the “mission statement” was only the “Chief’s message”. So I revise- he may not be a crook but then he would be just a liar who sought to negate Wilson’s public criticism with a misrepresentation- let’s see if the Chief offers a correction.<BR/><BR/>Also Ed- I was on Don Greer’s emailing list for the event and got three or four emails which also went out to dozens of journalists and politicians including the Mayor whom if no one else, I suspect, shared them with the KPD.Andy Parxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15398587036690312685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441020117205433950.post-51902224054318803992008-05-27T08:09:00.000-10:002008-05-27T08:09:00.000-10:00Hi Ed,I noticed the quote also. I asked several o...Hi Ed,<BR/>I noticed the quote also. I asked several of the folks close to the event if email had been used as part of their communications strategy with the police department. From what I understood, the organizers communicated primarily by phone and in person with police department representatives.<BR/><BR/>There were several widely circulated email announcements and web postings about the event of course, but I would still be very curious to know exactly which emails the police department had access to. If they can demonstrate that they were "in the loop" of emails by intention, that's fine. It's quite a provocative statement for them to make, and I think the public deserves an explanation.<BR/><BR/>KatyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441020117205433950.post-50760564399314141332008-05-27T06:50:00.000-10:002008-05-27T06:50:00.000-10:00Emailers Take WarningFrom personal experience, I k...Emailers Take Warning<BR/><BR/>From personal experience, I know that Kauai Police Department officers send threatening email messages to citizens, and I know the practice is acceptable and will not be publicly reprimanded by Kauai Police Commission or by Kauai Board of Ethics.<BR/><BR/>However, I did not know until reading reporter Rachel Gehrlein’s story, Emissions protest dampened by weather (5/24/08 TGI p.1), that police officers were monitoring the email of citizens. But evidently they are because KPD Capt. Ale Quibilan said "the department decided to prepare for any event" based upon the belief that "approximately 100 people expected to show up at the protest circulating through e-mails."<BR/><BR/>Let’s be careful out there.Ed Collhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04478789139917889309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441020117205433950.post-8813306720538060392008-05-27T00:27:00.000-10:002008-05-27T00:27:00.000-10:00zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzHe changed a mission statement. Le...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz<BR/><BR/>He changed a mission statement. Lets hang him.<BR/><BR/>Of course, since a mission statement neither interprets or interprets law or policy nor does it describe organization or procedures where's the beef?<BR/><BR/>Practice requirments? nope.<BR/><BR/>The rest of the information in the link:<BR/><BR/>"The term (RULE) does not include regulations concerning only the internal management of an agency and not affecting private rights of or procedures available to the public, nor does the term include declaratory rulings issued pursuant to section 91-8, nor intra-agency memoranda."<BR/><BR/>I think most reasonable people would consider a mission statement little more than internal motto or guideline not even adding up to an internal rule. <BR/><BR/>Crap. Another Parxworld screed with a foundation of cotton candy. <BR/><BR/>Do you even read the links you provide? Or are you just hoping no one else will?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com