Showing posts with label Lance collins. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Lance collins. Show all posts

Wednesday, September 17, 2008

DO YOU SMELL THAT?:

DO YOU SMELL THAT?: We’re just back from voting and it was every bit the appalling experience we thought it would be- and then some.

First off, early voting this year on Kaua`i is being conducted in a construction zone having moved from the Historic County Building– where people were told to come- to the “Annex” next door where the newly and apparently hastily readied basement room reeked of fresh paint- not just an OSHA violation for the workers but a nauseating experience for all involved.

But what the heck- you have to be dizzy in the first place to vote for most of those on the ballot this year- what’s a little huffing on the way into the voting booth?

Then we were handed a paper ballot shunning the electronic machine, as if it really matters. We and others were not told of the new procedure of having to check the little box picking a party instead of just voting in one party’s primary.

The new check box is there for no particular reason other than our new idiotic State Elections Chief Kevin "King" Cronin decreed it- without checking with anyone as was required by law.

And, in another bit of stupidity that could have been solved if he had bothered to follow the law and let someone check his new ballot, although the instructions still say to fill in the oval completely, there are no ovals or even circles next to each name but rectangles, insuring not just more confusion but using twice as much effort and ink to mark the ballot this year.

Cheesehead Cronin obviously decide that too many people had finally figured out the color-coded method over the last 10 years it’s been in use so he’d change it to insure another 10 years of confusion and ruined and invalid ballots.

Then- surprise number 17 gazillion this year- instead of, as has been the practice in the past, leaving off the names of those unchallenged in their party's partisan primaries for those running for state or federal office, they were included this time for no particular reason... probably because that’s the way they do it in Wisconsin.

Studies show that the worst years for mistakes in balloting occur when the balloting methods change- whether changing from things like punch cards to optical scans to using new instructions and ways to mark the ballots.

And so you’d think any schmuck who runs elections knows the best way to insure people understand the ballot is to not change the methodology from election to election unless you really have to..

But Cronin obviously isn’t just any ordinary schmuck- he got a unique, arrogant schmuck-osity about him as we’ve detailed over the past few months.

The worst part is that we aren’t alone in thinking that no matter what we did, there was a good chance that our vote will not be counted because no one is checking the infamous “paper trail” that is supposed to reassure everyone that the result will reflect the vote.

Everyone assumes that some kind of paper record- such as the printer contained in the electronic machines or the ones that we mark in ink and feed into the optical scan counting machine- are an assurance of lack of fraud because they can be counted later after the machines are done doing their “magic”.

But,. as we reported yesterday- and as is listed as a bone of contention in the lawsuit filed by Maui voting observer Bob Babson- the “paper trail” is rarely if ever seen again once the voter leaves the booth.

Because, as Babson’s attorney Lance Collins told us,. trying to see them again is an exercise in futility.

We were surprised to find out yesterday that electronic transmission to Honolulu of the vote with no one on-site verifying the totals had been the case for years and was not, as widely reported by the mainstream media and so by us, a new arbitrary invention of Cronin’s..

But when we asked Collins about it he added the following

I don't know how its been done on Kauai but tabulation has occurred previously on Maui then sent to Honolulu (without telling anyone on Maui what the results are) and then the results are sent back from Honolulu. This is what made Bob Babson initially suspicious in 2006.

Because the Maui final count was not made available before the tabulator was hooked up to the internet/telephone, there would be no way to verify that tampering had not occurred unless you manually recounted all the ballots (except the absentee ballots are never audited-recounted in the first place). However, there are no recounts unless a candidate or 30 voters have concrete evidence that there was fraud or error and that the fraud/error changed the result.

A very high standard for very low election security.

In other words the only way the “paper” is ever seen again - or even a first time- is if 30 people can prove there was something wrong with the totals. And that, if that’s true it would have changed the winner

Many people think it’s futile to vote because good people don’t become candidates- almost by definition- and many can’t even get on the ballot in many states.

And if they do manage to run, only those with lots of money from dubious sources – as well as those who don’t just represent but actually ARE the special interests- can get the media recognition to tell people they are “viable” or “ electable”.

But the with the privatized elections systems used in every state these days- which results in the proprietary nature of the counting software- and other ridiculously convoluted rules for ever actually checking the results, the supposed confidence-building “paper trails” do nothing to negate, and in fact facilitate, the opportunities for election fraud. .

So, that said, don’t forget to vote Saturday kiddies... It’s apparently a sucker’s game but it’s probably the only “right” you have left.

AND DOWN THE STRETCH THEY COME

AND DOWN THE STRETCH THEY COME: As detailed here twice recently- as well as in other Hawai`i blogs and even (gasp) to some extent in the mainstream press- it appears that vote totals this Saturday will not even be recorded much less counted at the precincts or anywhere else on the neighbor islands.

A lawsuit on Maui has been filed but judges have been consistently ruling against anything that will change this year’s un-official, official election procedures no matter how arbitrary and capricious... although the case is on appeal.

And so, as has been ubiquitously reported, one potential screwup-waiting-to-happen is that the votes will go directly via phone lines from the electronic voting equipment “cards” to the State Capitol for counting without even being recorded first, leaving room for all sorts of mischief.

But PNN has learned today that Kaua`i votes haven’t been tabulated or even recorded on island in the last 10 years and have rather been electronically transmitted to Honolulu for tabulation and first release.

In answer to PNN’s queries as to whether, as usual, the county would hand out the totals to the gaggle of reporters and campaign operatives that usually gathers at the county building on election eve, Deputy County Clerk Ernie Passion said they haven’t done the tabulations here at least since he got here in 1998.

Rather they’ve let the machines send them to Honolulu where they were electronically shipped back here and printed out for the gathered.

This doesn’t mean they ever had the required Chapter 91 Administrative Rules for the procedures, as attorney Lance Collins states in the Maui lawsuit. It just means they’ve been doing it illegally for a long time now.

Those who want to be among the very first to get the vote totals on Saturday can click here and bookmark the site. Then on Saturday around 7 p.m. you can go there and keep hitting “refresh” to get the up to the minute results.

And speaking of telling people where to go, this Saturday’s Special Mayoral Election appears to be a two way race between Bernard Carvalho ad JoAnn Yukimura for first place with Mel Rapozo trailing badly according to the PNN’s coconut-wireless totally-not-based-on-anything-but-a-hunch poll.

Our guess is that Carvalho will come in with about 40% with Yukimura coming in at about 35%, Rapozo around 20% and Rolf Bieber pulling in about 5%.

It doesn’t take a genius to see where most of the old boy support is because Carvalho’s first campaign spending report is in and he leads the cash race collecting a whopping $132 562.41 from July 8 through September 5 of which he still has $46,877. 36

And his list of contributors contains the names of virtually every Kaua`i county department head and a slew of county employees indicating that the old boys know who will put shoyu on their rice.

Click on the contributors list for an eyeful especially the fact that the identification of the people giving him money for the most part is sorely lacking... not that the others have any more details.

Carvalho has taken the Rose Garden approach so far and seemingly successfully when you look at his list of supporters which includes many Democratic Party stalwarts that supported Yukimura 20 years ago as well as the big business biggies that Ron Kouchi drew in his losing campaign against Bryan Baptiste in 2002.

With Baptiste’s Republican machine still in place and working side by side with the entrenched Democratic operatives Carvalho will be hard to beat and a low turnout Saturday could even put him over the required 50% needed to avoid the November runoff.

Yukimura’s report indicates the campaign is struggling financially but has received a boost in recent days and weeks as more and more local grassroots and community organizations have endorsed her.

The question is if she can turn out the vote,, especially the “I’m not voting for any of those creeps” crowd.

Her spurt has seemingly whip-sawed her past Rapozo as many of her disappointed old friends and supporters found nowhere else to go if they hope to dislodge denizens of the recesses of the county-insiders’ bunker.

But she is in serious money trouble if she keeps Carvalho under a majority with a slightly negative case flow after somehow spending $73,616.65 already.

Yukimura’s list of contributors from 7/17- 9/5 – like Carvalho’s and Rapozo’s 7/16- 9/4 list have a dearth of the required employer and industry information the campaign filing laws require if possible.

But for those who recognize the names the trends are pretty indicative of Rapozo and Carvalho’s old boy network support vs. Yukimura’s comparatively grassroots support

The bright spot money-wise for Yukimura might be that the listed donations were received before the Sept. 4 filing deadline which preceded many of the endorsements from the likes of the Sierra Club, the Kaua`i Museletter and even surprisingly enough PNN. And many of her contributors have not “maxed out” at the $2000 limit as many of Carvalho’s developer,. government and real estate contributors.

As to Rapozo’s filing Rapozo he’s sitting flush having collected 67,106.45 with 27,460.24 in cash left.

The question is, what is he saving it for.

He’s been hurt by various factors including the Yukimura surge and the publication of the book KPD Blue where voters were reminded- or in some cases first informed- of his involvement in the infamous “lap dancing at the station house” incident in 1995 which led to Rapozo’s ousting from the Kaua`i Police Department.

As a frequent administration critic Rapozo has relied on his image as a fighter and crusader to clean up county government and this strikes at his core. It’s what has distinguished him from both Carvalho who IS the embodiment of the Batiste reign and Yukimura whose compromising “no talk stink” persona has emerged in her six-year-council-seat stint and political comeback after being ousted from the mayor’s seat in 1994.

But when all is said and done Rapozo probably lost the election with his high profile blogging fight against the “dog path”.

By the time he came to his senses and stopped his blog not only had he lost votes but, because Carvalho was the administration official who actually banned the dogs on the bike path, the hurt was doubled because all his votes went to Yukimura who was careful not to get too involved in the issue too much except in her typical “make everyone happy” manner.

For many dog enthusiasts this is a one issue election now and they didn’t just turn to Yukimura but did so, well, enthusiastically.

And in the final analysis since Rapozo and Yukimura are essentially sharing the anti Baptiste/anti-Carvalho vote, JoAnn is picking up virtually every vote he loses. That may even be enough to push her into a virtual tie with Carvalho assuming Rapozo’s support is, as it appears, in free fall.

We urge anyone undecided to click on and check out the list of contributors for each candidate if you want to know who the candidate “represents”. It’s far more informative than things like the local newspaper’s regurgitation of old articles, fluff questions, useless information and splashy advertising that tried to pass itself off as an voters’ election guide this past Sunday.

All in all it’s been quite a boring race with all four candidates’ platitudes and stump-rhetoric replacing hard stands on the issue. That and a distinct lack of the usual sign-stealing charges smear campaigns and the like is disappointing to any political junkie.

But if it turns out as we predict there should be a pretty good two-way race to November 4.

Wednesday, September 10, 2008

THE DOG ATE MY VOTE

THE DOG ATE MY VOTE: We tend to think of outright election fraud as something that happens in faraway places like Florida and Ohio done by secretive Republican moles and operatives in places where the laws and rules of the state combine with unregulated proprietary soft-ware-using electronic-gizmos to “flip” the votes.

But that was in a different era- one before the reign “King” Kevin “The Minotaur” Cronin as Hawai`i Chief Elections Officer, whose exploits we’ve detailed many times for many months now as a search of his name in the box at the top of the page will reveal.

A month ago we detailed how despite the fact that there are absolutely no required HRS Chapter 91 Administrative Rules Cronin has made some up arbitrarily and capriciously- and illegally- and a judge has ruled that, although Cronin was grossly negligent if not guilty of malfeasance in selecting the electronic voting machines in the Hart InterCivic contract that was struck down by an administrative hearings officer, the election will proceed with the equipment they provided... and of course no rules for their use

But we thought, at least if people want their votes to actually count they can shun the DRE - direct electronic recording- devices and mark their choice on a piece of paper to be read by an optical scanner as Hawai`i voters have done for many years

But an article in yesterday’s Honolulu Advertiser dashed all hopes of that because it reports almost all of the walk-in absentee polling locations in O`ahu will contain no paper and optical scan opportunities and force those voting to use the unregulated, un-transparent highly hackable and rigable machines.

Buried deep in the article- and of no particular interest in terms of potential voter fraud to Advertiser Staff Writer Gordon Y.K. Pang- he reports

One thing O'ahu absentee walk-in voters will notice is that electronic voter machines are more prevalent than in the past. Glen Takahashi, the city's election administrator, said only electronic machines will be available to absentee walk-in voters who show up at the Kapolei Hale, Aiea Shopping Center and University of Hawai`i-Manoa Campus Center locations....

Those wishing to conduct absentee walk-in voting on O'ahu and who want to fill in a more traditional paper ballot can only do so at Honolulu Hale or Windward Mall, Takahashi said.

You’d think that the issue of the electronic machines’ reliability- brought up in court as part of a lawsuit on Maui over the lack of any regulations- would be discussed next but Pang prefers to bury his head up the butt of election officials by reporting

Election officials also prefer the electronic system, (Voter Services Section Chief Rex) Quidilla said. The machines don't allow for overvotes, which occur when someone incorrectly punches more than one vote, or more than one party ballot in the primary, he said.

Additionally, it's easier for a voter to correct mistakes before turning in final selections, Quidilla said.

But though we were pretty livid over this next questionable act by self proclaimed “de facto” Election Chief Cronin, attorney Lance Collins who is representing the plaintiffs in the lack of “ad rules” case isn’t shocked in the least. When asked for comment yesterday and he told us:

“Reports about the lack of optical scanners at walk-in voting precincts is not surprising. When a state agency is required to comply with rule making and fails to comply with rule making, there is nothing to stop the agency from changing its rules whenever it wants to.”

Although the current ongoing walk-in voting- at the Historic County Building- the only location on Kaua`i- will be providing paper ballots watch out for the vote eating DRE behemoths... that is if you want your vote to count.

Tuesday, August 12, 2008

ANOTHER LABRADOR IN THE LABYRINTH

ANOTHER LABRADOR IN THE LABYRINTH: Apparently Maui attorney Lance Collins isn’t going to let Chief Elections Officer Kevin Cronin get away with conducting this year’s election using the Hart InerCivic machines if he can help it.

As we detailed yesterday an administrative hearings officer found that Cronin seemingly did everything in as wrong a manner as possible and apparently did it on purpose- in fact he blamed it on the fact he didn’t like the procurement code and so ignored it.

Cronin was apparently too lazy, too pompous, too busy or too crooked to enact the required HRS Chapter 91 administrative rules for using electronic machines, has no remorse for not doing it and plans to use the machines anyway this fall.

In an extensive brief we received today Collins points out that there is no need to use the electronic machines as planned because they are being used in conjunction with “optical-scan” paper ballots which could be used instead

He says that the “irreparable harm” of having potentially crooked elections should take precedence over the claim of the “late date” of the ruling especially since there is a remedy that can be fashioned without using the electronic devices.

Collins primarily cites the lack of any administrative rules for using computers at all to accept, tabulate and transmit votes and his brief goes into detail about the history of vote counting and transmission both nationally and in Hawai`i.

He expresses an understated almost disbelief that we could be soliciting electronic machines without having the proper rules in place for tabulating counting and transmitting the vote- rules to insure the integrity of the elections when using this new form of voting.

He points out of course how the proprietary nature of the code for these computer machines makes transparent observation impossible.

But he also points out that although machines of the past- such as the old Thomas Edison- invented “pulling the lever” type- were used for many years on the mainland, they could be examined by any “reasonable person with good eyesight”. But that person cannot observe much less examine something that goes on at the level of electrons.

He then cites all the horrors the administrative review found with Cronin’s “bad faith” actions and how Cronin “attempted to manipulate both the data and the facts in order to justify the award” to Hart as well as Cronin’s “reckless disregard” for the state procurement code.

The problem is, Collins noted, that with all that tells us “don’t use these machines and this vendor” the hearings officer is going to let Cronin force us to use an unreliable open-to-abuse bunch of electronic machines in the 2008 election anyway.

The brief says that the plaintiffs stress the “potential for imminent irreparable harm” and points out that the ruling said that Cronin “acted in bad faith” with the unstated conclusion of “and this guy wants to run our elections where integrity and good faith are essential?”.

Collins says that “unlike many jurisdictions that have moved totally to DRE systems (“direct electronic recording” i.e.- voting on computers) DRE’s will be used on election day in parallel with marksense (optical scan of black-pen-marked on paper).ballots. The state is intending to use the older system for a portion of the voting.”

In other words the we could just scrap the electronic machines and use the optical scan ballot - the method where you pick your choice on a piece of paper with a black pen- and feed them into a machine as we have done for many years now, possibly using the electronic machines only for those who are visually impaired who previous to electronic balloting had to sacrifice privacy in order to vote.

“Clearly” Collins writes “the limited time remaining before the election is not sufficient equitable basis to allow an unsecured illegal election to proceed”.

We’ll see what the court says but if you want your vote to count in Kevin “the Minotaur” Cronin’s elections this year best to use a pen and paper.

Saturday, August 9, 2008

A NOT SO DIFFERENT BREED

A NOT SO DIFFERENT BREED: It seems like today is some kind of day of self examination for white people across the state, not just the supporters of the Naue protesters on Kaua`i but also the those involved in a planned cultural visit by children to Kaho`olawe in light of the refusal of the military to even test for much less acknowledge the use of depleted uranium on the sacred island.

A comment on the discussion of the direct action to preserve the north shore graveyard and the police response on Katy Rose’s Breaking The Spell was quite provocative in response to Katy’s description and discussion with Joan Conrow of some of the actions and reactions.

The anonymous poster said:

It’s amazing to observe the effects of the tremendous influx of malahini who have come here to “settle” and “immerse” themselves in the “host” culture; to hear them voice in their best PC manner their support of the island’s “indigenous” residents’ struggles bemoaning their plight. How, incredibly hypocritical this is! They totally ignore the fact that it is their continuing invasion that has caused the severe lack of affordable housing here; caused by their renting and buying up everything in that category. It is their competition for housing that has caused the steep rise in rents as more and more of these working class immigrants arrive. All that’s left available are expensive luxury homes that local folks can’t afford. So, with their true colors flying, they voice their objections to all the overbuilding on expensive properties that they helped create. It is their numbers which have contributed by their unnecessary presence to Kauai’s traffic problems, crowding of beaches and surf sights. They compete for what decent jobs there are on the island, and by their hand enable the contractors and developers to do the very over building they so openly despise. They fill the jobs in the islands tourist industry thereby enabling its expansion that they so strongly bemoan for all its ill effects on this once rural environment. This is more than hypocritical; this is duplicitous. How can they look themselves in the mirror, write their blogs and present their testimonies on how Kauai is losing its cultural identify when it is they who are the problem; it is they who are killing it. If it weren’t for them, local folks could more easily find housing so that their children can remain on the island of their birth and find decent jobs so they don’t have to leave. The voices of these patronizing malahini ring false when it is their very presence that hurts most those they seem to want to support. This is the inconvenient truth!

Some good points, as Katy said. But the problem with that is that mainlanders are not just one monolithic demographic.

The settlers causing the problems are the ones who come to develop and rip-off the local resources and culture. They come and rape the land and give back nothing but degrading low pay jobs in an offensive tourism industry, instilling plantation mentality in their wake.

And although pacific islander immigrants including the undocumented ones probably equal those from the states you don’t hear people complain about “ those stupid f—in’ Filipinos”.

It’s not the working class people who are causing this mess. As a matter of fact to say so is to blame the victims of the system whether locally born and raised or immigrant..

It’s not the transplant population explosion itself that has cause the problems but rather it’s the imposition of another culture that values money and progress over the individual rights and local lifestyle of working people who are caught in a trap, not of their making or in their ability to directly resolve it.

And there’s the rub.

Because even assuming the poster’s premise was correct and all the people who came here are destroying the island, is the correct response to say “join the club” with an “if you can’t beat them join them attitude” as many who comment in the various blogs and newspaper comment sections across the state emphatically pronounce?

Or is the right action to do all you can to curb the negative effects of the invasion by doing what you can to stop the degradation of exploitive predatory development that is causing it?

Another cultural clash within the non-native community came across our desk late this morning in an email to a list of almost 100 community activists, politicians and journalists sent by Maui public interest attorney par excellance Lance Collins in response to a letter from Big Island depleted-uranium (DU) activist Shannon Rudolpf .

Rudolpf saw a press release from Collins’ Malama Hawai`i organization announcing a workshop regarding “(a)n opportunity to go to Kaho`olawe with the Protect Kaho`olawe 'Ohana and learn about the island firsthand” for secondary school teachers and presumably students.

This caused Shannon to write to Collins saying:

Aloha,

It's completely irresponsible to take children to Kaho'olawe unless you are CERTAIN no depleted uranium has been used there. I've asked this question many times over the years but have never gotten a straight answer from anyone. I'm no expert but I would guess a lot of DU was used there. (The Target Island)

Please don't let your children go to Kaho'olawe without a working and properly calibrated radiation monitor.

I was present (across the road) from the Pohakuloa Training Range, on the Big Island in May 2007...many of us watched the radiation levels stay at or below background levels for an hour and a half, (5-20 counts per minute) on residents monitors...suddenly the wind came up and blew dust directly across the monitors... which then zoomed up to 75 cpm.

I would never have gone up there if I had known this was going to happen and would have discouraged others. Please heed this warning. Please discourage anyone from going to Kaho'olawe until there is a long term, 24/7 monitoring system in place, preferably with independent verification, such as the Hawai'i County Council has recently recommended for our training range.

Sincerely,

Shannon Rudolph– Kona

This drew what some might call an outrageous response from Collins, who has admirably worked with and represented many cultural and political Hawaiian groups including apparently this workshop. He wrote:

Shannon,

I think the issue of going to Kaho'olawe is more complex for many people than your black and white assessment -- which impregnates the issue with Western medical/scientific reasoning as the basis for your moral claims of what responsibility is for other people and their practice of culture.

During the cholera outbreaks in the turn of the century in the Philippines, U.S. military authorities used Western medical discourse to make similar black/white claims regarding what the proper conduct of Filipinos should be towards themselves and their children -- characterizing those that didn't listen to them as irresponsible and childish.

Western medicine and science has a long history of partnership with U.S. military and cultural imperialism and I would suggest caution before or nuance in telling other people how to practice their culture.

lance*

Wailuku, Maui


Ooooo- snap....

But who is the one telling whom how to help someone else practice their culture?

It’s certainly not an easy issue. It sounds similar to clashes that occurred in the northwestern US and Canada and in Alaska regarding whale hunting.

With good intentions many western activist said killing whales is killing whales and shouldn’t be allowed in an age when they are endangered no matter what the cultural importance.

The indigenous cultural practitioners and their supporters argued that even the questioning of the cultural significance is cause for outrage and to stop them from practicing their ritual was sacrilege tantamount to cultural genocide.

But then again some “cultural practice” claims regarding whales like those in Japan are seen by most as a thinly veiled attempt to engage in commercial whaling.

Rudolph was apparently just assuring the health and safety of children and the need to have the military to clean up their act and either admit to or show that there has never been use of depleted uranium on Kaho`olawe.

Does insuring that children aren’t exposed to radiation violate cultural practices of kanaka maoli- isn’t keeping children safe part of that culture too?

It seems presumptuous of Collins to attack Rudolpf even if it is in the name of sustaining cultural and religious practices. It feels disingenuous to claim that ascertaining the safety of the people going to Kaho`olawe is somehow an excuse for continuing cultural suppression.

Collins’ apprehension may be well placed because some of the most sacred places in the islands have been desecrated by the military such as Makua Valley on O`ahu.

The military has used dangerous conditions they created as an excuse to keep native practitioners out of the sacred valley of Makua, battling against practitioners in court and using and twisting court- mandated cleanup and access to actually keep practitioners out during traditional ceremonial periods like this year’s makahiki.

But the response Collins gave is not that maybe the importance of instilling culture in our children outweighs the risk of the DU but in fact he’s apparently dismissive of even finding out what the danger is much less taking the dangerous realities into account when people, especially children, visit

Would Collins object to taking a Geiger counter and keeping children away from radioactive areas if they exist? He doesn’t say

Does he want to keep the parents of those children- and for that matter the teachers and anyone else traveling to the island- ignorant of the risks and possible presence of DU on Kaho`olawe? He doesn’t say.

It certainly sounds like he is saying to Rudolph “shut up- what people don’t know won’t hurt them”.

Seems the least Collins and Malama Hawai`i could do is to insure full disclosure and the consent of those whose culture he’s defending.

Kipling’s white man’s burden thrives when westerners think they “know what’s best” for the “noble savages” and endeavor to protect them from themselves.

It’s the kind of attitude apparent in the way the state and federal governments still hold the never-really ceded “crown” Hawaiian lands they stole “in trust” and wants to pass the Akaka bill to “steal them one last time, fair and square”

Most Americans routinely say “we’d be glad to give them their land back and insure their cultural and political self-determination if they’d all just agree on what they want”.

Uh, they have- they want their land back and their cultural and political self determination insured.

As our friend, Anahola kanaka maoli sovereignty activist Michael Grace once said to us: “Hey- we big boys now- can handle”.

If they can handle, can’t we?